Ground Etc.
ABI presents Ground Etc, where we talk all things turf care and ground prep. This podcast is for grounds keepers, landscape contractors, and anyone interested in working in the dirt. From the right equipment, to the right crew, to the strategies needed to run a successful business. We talk to experts of the industry about the ground, the work, et cetera!
Ground Etc.
What's Next in Landscaping Equipment – With Nate Smith
We’re getting into gear in Season 2 Episode 3! Tune in to hear us talk about the future of landscaping equipment with ABI’s Vice President of Engineering, Nate Smith.
- Hi everyone, I'm Matt Metzger and you are listening to "Ground etc." This season we are talking all things soil prep and landscape contracting. From the right equipment to the right crew to strategies needed to run a successful landscaping business. We talked to experts of the industry about the ground, the work, et cetera. Today I am joined by the Vice President of engineering and product development for ABI Attachments and Force by ABI, which honestly is the longest title I've ever come across. This is Mr. Nate Smith, and he's going to be giving us the rundown in the future of landscaping equipment today. Hey Nate.
- How you doing buddy?
- Good, good. So just a little behind the scenes story, Nate and I have actually worked together for over a decade and we don't know how this this episode's gonna go today. So if we tangential, you just hang on. We're a freight train. We're going somewhere. We don't know where yet.
- Don't know where.
- So, okay. We said we've known each other for over a decade, but Nate, you've been involved in dirt equipment, groundwork equipment for much longer than that. Before we get to your longer history, talk to us specifically about this long title, this role that you've got at ABI and Force by ABI. How did you come into it?
- So I've been in the engineering department for over 10 years at ABI, actually over 11 years at ABI. And really my role now is sort of to get out the crystal ball and see the future. Oh no, like trying to figure out, you know, what's the next thing? What are the trends? How can we better equip our customers to get the outdoor work done that they're trying to do? So what is the equipment they need and what is, what are they actually trying to accomplish and are there better ways to do that? So yeah, it's literally digging out the crystal ball through trade shows, through talking to customers. I have the good or bad experience of reading a whole bunch of YouTube comments and everything else there.
- Oh no, the comments section.
- Oh yeah. We have actually made product changes based on YouTube comments.
- See, see, it does work. If you have product ideas or insights, drop it on those comments. Not just for us, for anyone.
- I have to be careful about like posting on blogs 'cause then I get messages and then you're like, well, what about this for this? We've wondered about that.
- Well, and you were, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the first engineers that Kevin Keigley and Scott Holmes ever hired at ABI?
- Yes, I was. So yeah, it's been a fun road, like from where we started to where we are now.
- I love how you said like crystal ball to look at the future. And that's ironic for me because I know that no one loves old equipment and no one I know other than you studies old equipment and even has old equipment, that wait, like why don't you share a little bit, like, what's some of the old equipment that you appreciate and what do you have on your own property?
- Personally, yeah, at home, yes, I have a 1955 Ford tractor. Like I have all the old stuff. Like, I went to an auction once and bought a 1940 tractor just for my kids to play on. Like that's just, which they love by the way.
- Which we loved and working with Nate in customer service, when I was there for years at ABI, anytime someone would call up and we were trying to work out an attachment and how it fit to an old, a Ford end, right, like, well hang on, let's, call Nate real quick, right? Oh, don't sell that manure spreader to that one. That PTO turns backwards. I remember stuff like that-
- Didn't know that, didn't know what PTO is.
- Yeah, well, and even we shot a video shoot at your place one time with one, a brand new a drag, right, for tractors on a three point. And when we posted the video up, we got more comments about your old tractor than we did about the new attachment.
- Yeah. They had to take the video down.
- Yeah, no, we get, yeah, oops. It's like a collector's item. So why didn't you talk a little bit then about how your, I mean here we have two polars, right, that you love looking at historical equipment, you appreciate the history of dirt work and that is aiding you somehow in like looking into the future on what people will need going forward. How does those two things blend together?
- Well, so much of it is, is number one, a lot of things have been done before. Like, it's funny actually talking to our patent attorneys, like our patent attorney has quoted like, you guys are my only client that I have to go back 150 years from prior art in order to figure out if it's patentable or not.
- Yeah.
- So number one, kudos to like Kevin Keigley, our owner, and us that we can still come up with stuff that we can get patents on today. That's like, we can still be unique. But there are so many things that were done in the past, especially on smaller machines or different, you know, specialty machines that we can learn from. And like, I'm gonna get nerdy here for a second.
- Yeah. Get nerdy. We're ready for it.
- Like the three point hitch, so a big pitch that I will have for you is go to the Henry Ford Museum in the Detroit area. You can see the 1938 prototype of the 1939 9N, and why is that so nerdy and cool and whatever? You could take a modern three point tool like what ABI builds and connect to that prototype. The hitch has not changed since 1938.
- Wow.
- Like the basic connection.
- That's impressive. So I mean, does that, how does that feed into, how that knowledge then of historical equipment feed into the design work that you and your team are doing in trying to provide innovative and cutting edge products for people?
- Well, soil is still soil and so much of it, like we start from the ground up. If you want to, like we talk about how do we do things uniquely or differently. So many equipment companies start with the engine or the transmission or the frame or whatever they're like known for. And we're starting with the dirt and working our way up, because we're starting with the results that we have to create in that soil. Whether it be a seed bed or some other type of ground prepped for some other like horse arena discipline or something like that, like we are dirt experts. Like me and the CEO nerd out over talking about sand silt clay ratios. Like, real confession on a date with my wife two weeks ago, I stopped by a synthetic sports field that was being installed to get a sample of the sand that they were using as an infill.
- Hey honey, quick detour. Quick detour from that night.
- Yes, yes.
- That's funny.
- It was a very large, very rounded particle.
- So whereas you nerd out on the soil silt clay ratio, I space out on that when it came to my biology classes. If you're willing to sacrifice some like prime date night time, right, in order to nerd out on stuff like this. Where did this interest and desire come from? I mean, just, I mean, gosh, if you go all the way back, like I worked on a dairy farm in high school, I just used to love like watching the corn start to appear from nothing. Just like, how it just slowly, I mean I know you have a farm background too, so like just seeing the little corn plants prop up, and just curious with how, how it all worked and everything, And especially on the machinery side, like tearing things apart and figuring out, I was that kid who took apart his tricycle when he was five. Like, I fixed the parent zero-turn mower like when I was like 10, 12 years old. I had fabricated a snowplow on the mower deck when I was about 12 or 13. Like, it's in your blood, man. You've always been doing this.
- Yeah, that's just what I've always been doing. So and so that kind of just crossed over professionally then. I mean I worked in a big production ag type place for a couple years, and then I landed at one of the large mower manufacturers doing zero-turn mower engineering for one of them.
- Nice.
- And then I found my way to ABI, just kind of way more formalizing and flushing out the engineering department here just about 11 and a half years ago. And so it's kind of gone from there. It's been a wild, fun ride.
- I know we're tying your kind of personal history and career in with what you have like learned and discovered about how historical engineering and historical groundwork equipment is wildly applicable still today. Right? What is the, give us that crossover, 'cause I know you're talking about, you know, the three point hitch being around over a hundred years, and I know a lot of people who are are listening or watching right now-
- Sorry, I'm an engineer. It's only like 90.
- He's gonna correct me on my numbers this entire time. Watch this.
- Yeah.
- Constant fact-checking.
- 86.
- There it is, all right. So, some people who are listening or watching, they may be using non-tractor equipment on their property, right? It could be stand-on equipment, it could be, like you said, zero-turn, could be smaller operations that don't need tractors with three point hitches. What's that crossover?
- That's such an excellent and unique thing and that's actually where the future is going, is it's all about eliminating the hand labor. So you make a good point. I either have this big tractor or I have a rake and let's be honest, no one wants to hold the rake and have to go rake that area,
- But there's such a big price difference.
- Yes.
- I can afford a rake. Well, but if I'm paying a guy to pull a rake or I'm paying a guy to sit in the seat or do something that moves away quicker. And that's where like the Force by ABI really shines. As we say, it's three guys with a rake and it really is. Like, yes, it's only five and a half foot wide. Yes, it is what it is. I mean it's not huge. Like if you're thinking dirt work, you're like timeout. But actually being small and nimble, it really is like that maneuverability.
- Yeah, so Nate, so far we're talking a lot about kinda the history of groundwork tied in with the history of the tractor and not everyone watching or listening to this podcast has a tractor. Or even if they do not, every job they pick up requires one.
- Absolutely.
- Talk to me a little bit about that transition from dirt work was tractor work, which before, it was rake work. So it went from rake to tractor and now are we, what if I don't need a tractor for the jobs I'm on?
- Well, you're hitting exactly on it and that that's one of the big things we're trying to do is give you a rake that's not one you drag around by a stick. Like, I have four kids and- do anything like that. Like no. Like, I get it, like, we know employees are hard to find.
- Good employees. And then you're gonna say, Hey, guess what? Today we're doing this tiny little yard or this tiny little area, and so I can't get my eight foot wide landscape rake in there-
- Or my skid steer or the Bobcat.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the skid steer's gonna tear it up, or there's a gate back there and so I'm not gonna get through the gate. So guess what, we got four rakes and some shovels and a wheelbarrow, which-
- And I'm sure like, I mean, be honest, like, if you're bidding that job and you see that a piece of equipment is all too big for the job, what are you doing to those bids, right? Like, you know, it's gonna be just endless man hours, and that's the least efficient kind of hour. So that's one of the things where we've seen, like, the Force equipment in general, where we're targeting it for it solving those problems. Again, we come up with better ways to get outdoor work done. So what are some better ways, how do we get rid of those three guys with rakes? It's a five and a half foot rake on a zero turn chassis.
- Right, right, which now that can be a touchy subject for people, right? Like how do we get rid of the guys with rakes?
- Well, we're not actually getting rid of them.
- They would way rather sit on a machine with a cup holder to drink their cold beverage-
- And a phone charger.
- And a phone charger.
- Listening to this podcast.
- Number two, when we redesigned the Z-23 chassis, one of our products, the two things most requested were a better cup holder and a plain way to charge my phone.
- Oh, I love that. That's funny.
- Like, we get it. That's what people actually want. They're gonna be on this machine all day. Like make it comfortable, make it how you want to actually use it.
- Yeah.
- Well, and if you're listening to this and if you're familiar at all with Force by ABI and the products there in that lineup, you know, if you own the business, you know that hand rake time is not efficient time. And if you don't own the business and you're on the hand rake, you know that hand rake time is not efficient time. So looking for that equipment then to ease that efficiency, right?
- Yeah.
- To help us be more proficient and get the job faster. And we know, we get it, there are labor shortages and labor rates are going up, and so, yes, those jobs, those small jobs that, certain small odd shaped jobs, four foot gate jobs, you know, whatever-
- Well, and it's different, right? I mean, you and I used to bail hay for a penny a bale, right?
- Yes, dude, uphill both ways going to school too. Well, but again, and even I know across the country now, minimum wages are going up and so the jobs that my 14-year-old used to get brought on for, what, $5.25 to pull a dirt rake, like you can't do that anymore.
- No.
- So how do we get smarter? That goes back to those better strategies. So I wanna talk more about the equipment. Before I get there though, I wanna back up just real fast because we are talking things that are still true about dirt work now that were true in Henry Ford's era, right? But there are also some things that are current misconceptions about the industry, right, people, that they think are true, and maybe someone listening, let's say they are, let's say they've got a lawn mowing industry. Let's say they've got a lawn care industry and they're like, you know what, I'm trying to diversify. I want to wanna expand my portfolio of customers. Like do I get in, do I not, I don't know like, what's-
- Exactly, so many people think it's about mowing, but here's what, and this is the cool thing about an ABI working with customers and even getting work on with some influencers. Like I recently spent some time with Pete Denny and he's really opened my eyes to like, there are guys who just make tall grass short. When I was mowing four or five yards when I was 12 years old, let's be honest, I was a making tall grass short guy.
- Yeah.
- Like that is one level. But that is the race to the bottom. And so the guys who really want to excel in their business, they gotta offer other services. They gotta fert, they gotta, they gotta aerate, they gotta do other things, 'cause if you can actually get on a spectrum, so if you think about it as a spectrum from the 12-year-old making tall grass short, that is such a low barrier to entry business. like anybody with a pickup truck and a trailer is in that business.
- Or with two legs. My son has got into that into like a, he picked up the neighbors. Like a push mower, someone could.
- You're there. So guys gotta get out of that commoditized like race to the bottom business. So it's like how can we offer other services and how can we get to those clients who actually care about quality and actually care about, hey, I can fix that dead spot you have over there because that's where the dog does his business. You know?
- Yeah.
- Whatever it is, like, yeah, no, I'll come fert that. I'll come aerate that spot that's trampled down 'cause that's where the kids always put the soccer goal. You know, when get into sports turf manager realm, and that's where we have great insight and it is really helpful then to see those things, these guys that are ferting, that are doing other things. And so that drives, you know, aeration, just, there are a host of other services that can actually increase value to your customer and people who care are willing to pay for it. And that might be part of the key, is that guy's gotta look for the customer that will care enough for that.
- Well, I love it. That's good, because you just did a great job identifying kind of the vision behind the creation of the Force and the Force line of products and you gave the vision and the rationale and here's what we're trying to accomplish and empower business owners, empower operators to do more than just make tall grass short, right?
- Yep.
- Get nitty gritty with us. Like, so talk to us about how the introduction of the Force line of products initially changed the industry when it came online, how many years ago now?
- Yeah, so actually I wanna say 2011 or 2012 is when the original model, the Z18, came out.
- Yeah.
- And it actually, it was revolutionary in its time. I will give Kevin Keigley who has been on the podcast here, all the credit in the world for having come up with that whole concept and everything. And it was built around a chassis built by another manufacturer and we did pretty well with it. I actually have many great stories about those machines. But there came a point in time in which we decided we had to build our own machine. We had to be our own, and we had to come up with a way, being tied to someone else's machine, there were certain things we couldn't do. Like the better cup holder, like the cell phone charger. Like, things like that that we're like, hey, we just need to build our own. And so we decided to do it. And so by listening to customers and having a stack of feedback, and charged forward, and that's where the Z-23 model came from. And we have actually built more capability into that machine than we use.
- Yeah.
- And what you're seeing is part of that functionality actually coming to full fruition.
- Got it. So design from the beginning has way more capacity in that machine than people even realize. Well, and it seems like it is, it's not just an add-on. Right? It's not just that, you know, ABI had, you know, this line of products, we just need one more thing or expand out a little bit or make this one thing just a little bit different. It seems like from the very beginning it was not expand to a different product. It was take a look at what people are doing, how can we help them do it better? And it's a custom built-
- And I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna go back full circle to, well, why do we aerate? It's 'cause the soil does de-compact. Going back to we start with the ground up.
- Yeah.
- I understand, my engineers have to understand why do we have to de-compact? Well, roots need nutrients.
- Yeah.
- Air, it's fundamental yet confusing that air is actually nutrition to the plant.
- Yeah.
- Like we gotta get air down into the soil.
- Yeah.
- So things like that. Understanding the fundamentals. So yes, we have to de-compact, we have to fert properly. We have to be able to control where that's being thrown and not be wasteful for it, 'cause fert's expensive. Seed's expensive. Like these are real operating costs.
- Yeah.
- We get it.
- All right, so Nate, we kinda rabbit trailed there for a little bit on the product and how it's impacted. You know, there's websites and websites about all the different impacts of the Force-
- I nerd out on that stuff.
- I know, me too. But I do wanna pivot a little bit because not only do we have people listening to or watching this episode that use the equipment or are responsible for people who use the equipment, but we also have people who work with people and lead teams and guide teams and own businesses. And I mean you got that pretty fancy title there. As vice president, you also have a team of people that you lead to.
- I do.
- I'd love for you to speak to what it's like to lead a group of engineers and to lead a team of people. And caveat to this, everyone, is that Nate probably reads more leadership books than just about anyone else I know. So like, this is a, but seriously though, this is a topic that's near and dear for both of us because we want to take good care of the people that we're working with.
- Absolutely.
- I know that you could talk for hours on this topic. Gimme a couple of key piece of advice of what do you recommend for people leading teams?
- Well, I think you kinda hit on it and really knowing and caring about them and kinda what's going on. So like, knowing your guys or gals one-on-one and kind of what's going on in their life. Because like I literally had the epiphany the other day with someone where was like, wow, like they have more potential. We gotta figure out how to harness that.
- Yeah.
- Like, just by sitting down and talking to 'em. Like one-on-one, Hey, how's it going at home? Like what's the current stressors in your life like?
- So what would you say, I like that, and in agreement, what would you say to someone who says like, Nate, cool, sounds great. I get it. I wanna make sure that my people are cared for. Honestly I can't keep up with the work. I don't have time to sit and make those kind of conversations.
- I get it. But 20 minutes, it could be in the truck going from a job to the other or something. Hey, ride with me and let's have a conversation. I think so much with our people, it bottles up and then it explodes all at once, instead of just, hey, I'm here. And yeah, you don't have an office. They can't just, you know, open door doesn't really work when you're, the cabby, your truck is your office. You can't have the door open driving down the road. We definitely don't recommend that.
- That'd be entertaining.
- Yeah, but seriously, being-
- Making the most of that time.
- Making the most of that. Hey, take your guys out to lunch once a month.
- Yeah.
- Hey, I'm gonna buy you the Burger King this time. Let's sit down and, because I get it. Or the gas station in the morning. We know you're all at the gas station, gassing up stuff, equipment in the morning. Like, carve out that 10 minutes for that real, 'cause people really wanna be known.
- Yeah.
- And if you want, especially since we know turnover is so hard.
- Yeah.
- People stay where they're known and they want to be known.
- Yeah. Can you talk a little bit to the, you know, in the same way that you've got a diverse group of team that you work with, right, some doing design work and some manufacturing engineers and some in quality. A lot of folks listening and watching also have a kind of a bit of spectrum of different work that needs to be done. Maybe they have a front office staff or maybe they have somebody taking care of books. Maybe they've got somebody on a rake. But then they've got, you know, a tractor operating and they've got some diversity in the team. How do you lead a group of people with different skill sets and who need to accomplish different things throughout the day?
- Yes.
- That was not a yes or no question, just for the record. I just wanna be clear about that.
- No, no, it's hard 'cause I have guys who are welding and they're just cranking on, welding, and I got guys that are doing very deep thought level work. Like we're literally paying them to think. That's a novel.
- Yeah, and not to just like do.
- Yeah.
- We joke that they rearrange electrons all day long.
- More nerd jokes. I love this.
- Yes, yes. But I think it goes back to the fundamental clear expectations, clear definition of winning, meetings. I know most of you probably don't deal with meetings, but clear outcomes of meetings. Like deliverables. Like, and I gotta give Matt credit for this one. The daily standup. Like, 20 minutes of what'd you do yesterday? What are you gonna do today, and what's blocking you?
- Yeah.
- Like hitting those three things because that is a cadence of accountability. So if you shameless plug book 40x-
- Some Stephen Cubby stuff there.
- Yeah, of just having a cadence of constant accountability.
- Yeah, well and this was a fun story too, because again, Nate and I have worked together for a while. You know, over the years trying to tackle different challenges with efficiency and productivity and managing the projects and hitting, you know, the deadlines that have to get made and the quality expectations.
- Yeah.
- And I remember it was just a couple months ago actually that you were saying, Hey, like, the team is great. Everybody is humming, but it seems like we're not quite as in sync as what we need to be. And so this idea of a daily huddle really started as an experiment. Because I don't tell Nate what to do, just so you know. His title's longer than mine.
- Ah, nah, nah.
- Saying, what if we tried this experiment? Can you give it five or 10 minutes at the beginning of the day every day to rally the troops and exactly like you just said, what has to happen at the end of the day? What is blocking that from happening?
- Yep.
- And so no matter what your team looks like, even if you're starting from different locations, do you have five or 10 minutes of the shop, five or 10 minutes around the truck, around the trailer before you head out. Alright, let's make sure we're on the same page.
- Because maybe what's blocking them is something as simple as, Hey, you know, my leaf blower's really hard to start. Can we figure that out? You know, it might be something simple, that that guy feels appreciated and listened to-
- And at how many jobs? All right, a leaf blower are being hard to start. Like, all right, how big a deal is that? Well if you're talking to five, 10 jobs a day at a five minute startup time, well, you just gained an hour back.
- Well, even if it like, it could be the spark arrestor plug or something like, something stupid simple like just, yeah, just equipping our people. Like it's the fundamental of leadership, yet it is so critical and we get, to your point, so busy that we lose sight of that.
- Yep. So we've talked, you know, making people feel seen, taking just a couple of minutes, asking questions, getting to know people. We talked, kind of guiding people specifically into different jobs that they've got. I'm also curious, especially for, and how this pertains to leadership, right, with the crews that you've got and trying to accomplish different things in the crew, I mean you've got different audiences that you're working with as well, right. And with ABI Attachments it's primarily directly to the end user. Force by ABI, you're also working with with dealers, right? So why don't you talk a little bit about what it's like to design the tools and work with the team to design products that hit such a wide variety of markets and audiences, right. That you're working with, you're thinking of the end user, you're thinking of the dealer, you're thinking of the business owner. It sounds dumb but it's so simple. It starts with listening.
- It starts with actually listening to the dealer, to listening to the end user and asking good questions. I used to be, so I got, I have a career mentor, uncle of mine who's amazing, and he told me an engineer's job is to know. But I'm gonna disagree slightly. I think an engineer's job is really to ask the right questions.
- I like that.
- In order to solve the problem. 'Cause we're fundamentally solving problems. So I gotta understand your problem but I gotta understand the root cause of that problem. So to your point, literally I was in a meeting yesterday and we're like, oh that's an interesting concept. What does that look like at the dealership?
- Yeah.
- Like how does that affect our dealer? How does that affect our end customer if we do things like that? Like we have to be, and I was in a meeting with our CEO, like we have to ask those questions top to bottom.
- Yeah, well, and we've talked before too. I mean I love that you're pointing out asking the right questions and listening, and when the Force was opened up to a dealer network, right, this was, there's a lot of us around ABI Attachments and in Force by ABI that we are curious what does it look like to work with somebody that is actually between us and the end user. And I think some of us, and I'll, I was a little bit nervous about that at first, but what we found is that there's a lot of great insight on the dealer level.
- It is super helpful actually to get, yes, insight into the market, they're the ones talking to the customer, and to have their help on the service end of things to be on the ground. So Matt worked in customer service previously. I've taken those phone calls. It is incredibly difficult to diagnose a motorized piece of equipment over the phone.
- Yeah.
- Like funny side story. So I got a phone call once from a Force being used at a Major League Baseball field that will remain nameless on a Sunday afternoon because the laser was going crazy, just bouncing up and down and everything. Turns out a laser interferes with the jumbotron. Who knew?
- Who knew?
- That's not in the manual.
- I didn't know that. Yeah, so literally they got them to turn off the jumbotron 'cause he was laser-grading the field for opening day for an MLB team.
- Seems like a pretty important kind of-
- Yeah, no pressure.
- No pressure.
- Like diagnosing that over the phone, really?
- Sure.
- Versus having dealerships that can be there on the ground that can actually see it. That is so much quicker, more efficient. Being that face of the customer to be able to advise to see their conditions, let that customer experience our tools.
- Yeah.
- I think that is one of the biggest challenges, is when you're an innovative company. This is something we talk about a lot, is we make stuff that's a little different. Like it's not necessarily what people are used to. Like we talked about the historical stuff, it's not all landscape break. It's not just a harrow. So much of this equipment comes from like ancient ag to like soil prep is soil prep. And so all the feedback we can get, the more, the better. And I guess this is a, kind of a shameless plug, that if you are, if you're listening to this and you work with the dealership for any of the products that you need to run your business, give them feedback. I know we talked at the beginning of the episode-
- Yeah, we listened to them.
- Like reading comments and listen to comments in whatever medium you choose. But if you work with somebody who's providing you your equipment and your resources and your tools, let them know because they're a key role in working with the people making the products to make something great that you actually can use and is gradually improving.
- Yeah. Yeah. We want to hear, hey, this cup holder stinks or whatever it is. We joke about that-
- Usually it's more significant than the cup holder. Usually it's what's more significant than, you know, ?
- Yeah.
- Alright, so I know that you mentioned like, as we're working on things and tailoring projects and future equipment to what the feedback, the feedback that we're receiving, what are you working on right now?
- There's a lot of capability built into the C-23 chassis that we haven't actually utilized. Back when we initially designed it, we put a whole lot of hydraulic actually capability to run hydraulic attachments. And it's not something that we initially tapped into just 'cause the market was using it more for baseball field grooming and grading and laser grading and some sports turf specialty stuff. But we knew there was way more potential in there for our commercial cutters and fertilizers and other people.
- Yeah.
- And so what we're leading with actually is a hydraulically-powered aerator that we've put under the mid-mount.
- Nice.
- So first products, great guys to work with, have patented and designed the aerator that fractures the compaction in the soil. But we've taken a little different take on it in that we put it in the middle of the machine so we can control its depth very positively. And we let the head swing side to side, just like our static aerator that we've offered for years. But what that means is that aerators make excellent flail mowers if you like pull them out of the dirt or put 'em back into the dirt. Like they tear out turf like crazy.
- Yeah.
- And so standard operating procedure with an aerator is to drive straight, shut it off, pick up, turn around, set it back down, turn back on
- . So cumbersome.
- Yeah, so we made this thing so the head swings underneath 15 degrees each way. So you can go along that nice curvy edge of the sidewalk or whatever it is and just keep going. You can just run around that yard.
- Well back to that efficiency-
- Yeah, like it's a productivity saver. It's easier to operate 'cause you just tell your guy, Hey, put it down and turn it on and drive. He doesn't have to know that he is gonna rip out turf.
- Yeah.
- No 180s.
- No.
- Yeah. Yeah, please. You can circle around some trees, you know, it has some limits.
- Yeah.
- But, yeah, it's gonna make guys way more productive. They can then seed off the same machine. Just, there's a lot more things that we can do with that hydraulic capability that we have. There's a power broom.
- Wow.
- That we're showing. That's been a request, front, and probably eventually, a mid-mount broom.
- Nice.
- Just lots more things off that platform. Some seeding improvements.
- That's fantastic.
- Yeah, we're really trying ferting improvements. There's some better snowplow options. Salt spread, we get it. A lot of our crews, they need to be four season, those of us that live up here north and have this thing called snow to deal with.
- Yeah.
- And we promise it will eventually snow again. I know the last two winters have been rough. I'm sorry guys. If you're really dependent upon the snow income there, get your contracts early. But it sounds like everything you're doing with that Force lineup is to add additional products that make it easier to have one Force on the trailer with the add-ons. That way, you get to the job site and you can maximize the time spent.
- And it is way more than just that dirt working machine. Not that it doesn't do that well. So a fun side story I have to tell. I remember years ago when we first developed the Laser Force, we had a customer come to us that had a minor oil leak that was getting fixed. But he said I can't be without this machine. It's making me too much money. And this goes back to our labor saving point, is he had, he was redoing tee boxes, golf course tee boxes and he had gone from three guys two days doing a tee box to one guy himself with a sided cutter and a Laser Force in half a day.
- That's impressive.
- Like he would peel back the sod, grade it out, roll back out new sod and be done, just like that. And see literally the machine was making him too much money to be down.
- Yeah, I remember that. So he came and he actually stood there and waited on it.
- Yes, 'cause he was going from one job to another.
- Yeah. I love it.
- Like that is the value that we try to generate for our customers. So when we can find new and innovative ways to do that, that's why we're working on this stuff. Well, and you can, I mean, from your excitement, that just speaks again to your desire, your team's desire, ABI's desire, the Force's desire to really maximize effectiveness, profitability, for people in the landscaping industry.
- Yep. And I think that is another advantage. When you talked about teams, and how we lead our teams, like go and see. Like that's a principle through all kinds of things. Like, what is the customer actually trying to do?
- Yeah.
- So, oh, they need to de-compact the soil. Well okay, here's a better way to do that.
- Yeah.
- Another thing that I'm actually really excited about, and again, this is, you may have seen this at Quip or seen other things of, we've had many customers tell us they need to move material around a job site. They need to be able to get stuff off the truck, like full bucket loads of stuff. So we've gotten into the material handling business, but we've done it with a little different tweak than what others have.
- Yeah.
- So we've used a lot of these mini-loaders, we sell attachments. There's the SR Mini for a mini loading machine and it works well. But there's a challenge. You have to drive backwards, and let's face it, nobody likes driving backwards. Those machines are a little awkward to begin with. And so we've always said if we made a mini loader, we need to make it finish forwards. And that's what we're working on.
- I love it.
- Is literally, we can put an attachment on the back of our mini loader, so you can put an attachment on the front and one on the back and finish in one pass.
- Fantastic.
- And carry your material to the job site still.
- Yes.
- You have the ability to make the spoils piles and pick them up, to rake the rocks into a pile and then clean them up with the same machine.
- I love it.
- So because trailer space are another just huge thing. We get it, guys have just a dump trailer, just a pickup truck. We get it. The DOT rules, oh my gosh.
- Oh yeah. Finding somebody with a CDL Class A is just a nightmare right now.
- And the skid steers are only getting heavier. You know, you talk trends in the industry, it's the bigger, the heavier, and that's great and we have tools for that. But not everybody gets through the four foot gate with the 9,000 pound skid steer. Just doesn't happen.
- Well again, if all you've got is a, you know, a 250, a 350 and a flatbed trailer, you don't want to muscle up to that CDL size.
- No.
- Yeah.
- No, not every job requires that.
- Right. Right.
- So how do we give the guys, the three guys with a rake, the small simple tool that can go in there and get the job done. And so yeah, we get it. You need to carry the material too. And we have even more fun things planned in that machine, so stay tuned. I was gonna say, it sounds like we need to keep our eyes open when it comes to product innovation. You did mention, and I think that, you know, we can probably end on this, Nate, because you're a great one to ask because you've got so much historical knowledge of dirt work industry, and it sounds like you do a ton of research on trends going forward, trying to-
- That's kind of my hobby.
- You know, what do you do not working, work? So any other, I know you mentioned a couple of things there that weren't just Force by ABI-related but actually industry and market related. So for the folks listening who are, this is their space, you mentioned, you know, you mentioned the harder to find, you know, CDL drivers. You mentioned skid steers, loaders, excavators getting heavier and heavier. Any other trends that we should be aware of that you're seeing in the industry so that we can stay on top of and be mindful of as we're looking for equipment?
- A huge demographic one is, and I'm a nerd on all this, so researching this, is lawns are shrinking. Like people generally know that, but lawns are getting smaller. Like since, I ran a stat recently, since 1992, like lawns are 20% smaller than they were in new housing builds.
- Interesting.
- Most lawns are now 0.16 to 0.19 acres, like over 60% of them. Interesting. A fascinating little tidbit. So this is very regionally driven, but not like how you think. You would think out west they would be larger. The largest place they actually are is New England.
- Interesting.
- Due to zoning requirements.
- Fascinating.
- Yes.
- Yeah. So then thinking through, if you have a landscape company or a landscape contract company that you're working with the dirt, working with the lawns, keeping in mind about how much space are you working in, how much turnaround space do you have?
- Well, I mean we started as a company and I get it with tractors, with seven and a half foot, eight and a half foot wide stuff, and there's a market for that.
- Yeah.
- But the market is telling us, the lawn size is telling us the future is small.
- Yeah.
- The future is nimble.
- And then going back to that hand rake, right, so if you've got a smaller lawn, like I know, I shouldn't use hand rake, but my tractor attachment doesn't work. What are my options?
- Yeah, yeah.
- I can't turn around when I got a 20 x 20 spot to do.
- Yeah.
- Like that's not gonna be efficient. I'm gonna drag a big circle. Like let's not do that. Which sometimes it feels like I'm running in circles when-
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- But yeah, so no, we see these trends in the industry and it's gonna be very regional, but yeah, lawn lawns are smaller. Like I was recently talking to somebody in Europe that they size their equipment to go through the house to get to the backyard. Like can you imagine?
- Yes, they have to be like under 24 inches wide. They're like, we probably aren't going there anytime soon.
- I'm trying to picture that conversation with my wife actually. Hey honey, I'm gonna the through the dining room-
- Into the house, out the back.
- You try it first and then you let me know how it goes.
- Probably not well.
- Well Nate, thank you so much for all the information you gave today. Not only your history allowing us to get to know you a little bit and allowing everybody else since we already know each other. And also a rundown on what we can expect from the future of Force by ABI. But also some great insights on the market, the industry, some helpful leadership tips for all of you who are running teams, owning businesses, and this is your livelihood. I mean, you want to have a successful business, yes, but yeah, you wanna be profitable and have a great life as well. So I hope that some lessons from today's episode have been helpful for that. And subscribe to this channel, make sure to subscribe to socials that we can track along and make sure to go visit forcebyabi.com because we've got a lot of stuff, fun stuff coming up. Maybe by the time you're watching this, it's already come out. So check to see, check up on those attachments, those powered equipment for the ABI Force. And we hope to see you next time.
